Raw data to show the discrepancies between the records as reported by Statistics Over Under (March to November) and GoalOverUnder (December).
Download link 1 - 2011 raw data for StatisticOverUnder
Download link 2 - March to November 2011 tips for StatisticOverUnder, VerifiedTipsrs and Verifybet
Download link 3 - December 2011 tips for GoalOverUnder, VerifiedTipsrs and Verifybet
Download link 4 - the 65 losers and 3 winners missing from StatisticsOverUnder but present in VerifiedTipsters during March to Novermber 2011
It took a lot of work to find those missing bets because VerifiedTipster does not show the full match without hovering overing the each one in their database, but anyone who is prepared to do the work will be able to replicate the finding provided VerifiedTipsters contine to make their for StatisticsOverUnder available.
Below are 3 profit charts comparing all the data collected from StatisticsOverUnder, VerifiedTipsters and Verifybet for the March to November 2011 period. Because all bets were advised with Betfair I have deducted 5% commission from profits for all 3 records. The reason this period was chosen was from the start date of proofing by VerifiedTipsters until the time I started investrigating what was going on. If you look at the charts carefully then broadly speaking VerifiedTipsters and Verifybet are in agreement with some minor differences. Also the StatisticsOverUnder chart shows similar short term fluctuations but the underlying trend is completely different, i.e. up instead of down. Really the only way that is possible for that to happen is if some of the losing bets have been removed but much of the rest is left the same. And that is exactly what appears to have heppend, i.e. the 65 missing losing bets, and only 3 missing winning bets.
I have also provided the screen shot of the orginal e-mail send to StatisticsOverUnder and VerifiedTipsters about the discrepancies, a 2nd e-mail sent to StatisticsOverUnder once VerifiedTipsters had replied, and below that StatisticsOverUnders first reply and my 2 repies to that.
I have not trawled through December's data to find what is missing and what has been added. As I say it takes a long time, but the data is available for download above should anyone wish to do it. We know that GoaloverUnder had said they were sending more tips than were being proofed to VerifiedTipsters(even though that contravened VT's rule). Admission of that is shown in the screen shot of the e-mail received from StatisticsOverUnder about that. These additional tips will no doubt go a long to account for the differences between GoalOverUnder and VerifiedTipsters in December 2011, but of course since these additional tips were never submitted to any proofing company, as SOU/GOU appear to admit to, then we have no way of verifying their validity.
The acutal figures for December were as follows:
Goaloverunder published a record of advised tips from December 2011 numbering 125 in total and with a +6.5% profit over turnover. VerifiedTipsters recorded losses of -12.1% over turnover from 118 selections (before Betfair commission has been deducted). The GoalOverUnder record only goes as far as the 28th December. It's possible there might have been more bets on the 29th to 31st but I did not want to take the risk of missing the data before it might have been removed, which in January 2012 it was.
Now we know that in Januuary 2012 GoalOverUnder went to great lengths to say it took over at the beginning of December and had nothing to do with the previous StatisticsOverUnder team. Proof of that is shown below. In fact the e-mail above dated the 4th December 2011 was the first reply StatisticsOverUnder/GoalOverUnder bothered to give to my requests to learn more about the results discrepancies. You will notice this reply and their last one before that dated the 24th November 2011 overlap the November to December period. Was there any mention of a change of ownwership in the mail on the 4th December? Not that I can see
Readers should also be directed to the following forum thread where GOU have posted twice, on the 20th November and the 1st December 2011.
mybetinfo.net/www-goaloverunder-com-27382.html
There is not dicussion of a change of ownership at all. The 1st December post simple say...
"Make FREE login to our site and go to Today Picks to see them .. Due to an big upgrade of our site in 01/01/2012 all our December tips will be FREE for all ..."
Big Upgrade does not necessarily equal change of owner. If it did, why not say so?
Readers should also be referred to the screenshots towards the bottom of this page showing the same IP address for BetOverUnder, StatisticsOverUnder and GoalOverUnder. None of that on its own proves there was not a change of ownership, but had their been one would have thought the new owners might have done more to ensure that their December activity matched what was reported to VerifiedTipsters insead of sending out threats of legal action as the screen shot shows below and not abiding by VerifiedTipsters terms. Furthermore, if this was the new GoalOverUnder, why were they still using the old StatisticsOverUnder e-mail address?
Despite the admission that some tips in December were not being sent to VerifiedTipster, in case anyone was in any doubt the 2 next screenshots from December shows that GoalOverunder (still using the statisticoverunder.com domain) were claiming that "All records are verified". Yes, the picks were all free in that month but that is not relevant.
Finally it is worth making available the e-mail correspondence Pavlos had with Football-Data (sister site to Sports-Tipsters) during the 14th and 15th Decemebr 2011 in which Pavlos makes the following statements:
- "I am a tipster in www.goaloverunder.com. Not the owner"
- "tips are sent to http://verifybet.com and http://www.verifiedtipsters.com and to e-mails-phones. Anyone can check"
- "We may not register the 10% of the games to our table but in the end this 10% is not added to the profit."
- "Verify sites are our mirror and they show our profit/loss. There are months with profit and months with loss. We dont have intention to mislead anyone. As far for the missing tips i will check it."
- "Ok time will show what and who......I am new on the company and i will try to correct some things "
Regarding the final statement, Pavlos never came back to Football-Data to explain where the missing tips had gone.
The full correspondence (earliest e-mails at the bottom) can be downloaded as a Word document.
Of those that raises a number of questions
- Why is it Pavlos that has been posting on VerifiedTipsters getting upset when he is not the owner, but just a new tipster? Is there another Pavlos?
- If the proofing companies were mirroring GoalOverUnder why were the records/profits/losses for December so different?
- How can they mirror each other if 10% of games are not submitted?
- Why was I told on the 24th November that "by the end of the month all games are counted" whereas on the 15th December I was told that "We may not register the 10% of the games to our table but in the end this 10% is not added to the profit." Was it because the company had changed ownership and in December the new company was doing thing differently to the old company? Perhaps Pavolos would like to clarify that.
- What is the point of proofing if the tipster simply choses not to proof some of his picks, unless he explicitly identifies which one beforehand and provide a valid reason for why?
- If there is no intention to mislead why has it been so easy to jump to these conclusions?
- Why have Goaloverunder not taken the opportunity to explain why these discrepancies have occurred, despite many being offered many chances to do so?
- Why did Pavlos never reply to Football-Data with information about the missing tips from the March to November Period?
- If those missing tips were not the responsibility of GoalOverUnder why didn't Pavlos just tell me that there and then rather than offering to go and check where they had gone?
- Why, if it was under new ownership, did Pavlos not simply tell me that GoalOverUnder was under new onwership and what StatisticsOverUnder did before December was nothing to do with the new team? Why did that explanation only appear in January 2012? If they were new owners, then they were new owners in December 2011 as well as January 2012.
The rest of the screenshots below are there to prove that Checkinsports was not indepedent from Goaloverunder and had been using the same Google Analytics account, before it was chanegd after they were alerted to this fact.
Also, here is the orginal message (saved in Word format) sent to Checkinsports asking about their supposed independece and their reply.
